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Wittgenstein and rules

My take-home from listening recently to a book on Wittgenstein was that there is always something in our language game that cannot be reduced to or captured in rules.

Perhaps that something more is the way desire directs our movement.  Desire is a condition for the possibility of having even implicit rules.  Explicit rules for human behavior cannot really move us to act: they only steer our desires.

Perhaps "rules" signify whatever can be explained mechanistically, but Wittgenstein might add that such an explanation is never a complete one.  Just as to describe a machine in terms of its physics without saying what it is for is to fail to describe it as a machine, so too, one can never give a complete account of nature in merely mechanistic terms.


Comments

Eternitatis said…
Wittgenstein was too hung up on language as the end-all and be-all. I mean when a man says that even the pain from a toothache is "normatively determined" by our language, you have to wonder. Trivially, words are not actions. I think his reach becomes paralyzed by that realization of that conclusion. “Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." To his credit, however, he also said “A serious and good philosophical work could be written consisting entirely of jokes.”
Leo White said…
You haven't addressed the claim that was made in the original post... which is that there is something in our language that cannot be reduced to rules.

I look forward to reading your other posts... hopefully tomorrow.
Eternitatis said…
Of course, all language can be reduced to rules. There are already context free languages which consist entirely of mathematical rules. The mere fact that all people understand language to begin with is a fact consistent with learning those rules. There's nothing mysterious about language apart from its obvious sloppiness and imprecision. It's crudeness should not be be the domain of some exulted world of mysterious irreducibility. The whole point of language lies in its reduction. That reduction can be self referential at some point which produces paradoxes and the like, but that problem lies with the skills of the user, not the language. One can write bad computer code as well with infinite recursive loops. Language is a vehicle of abstraction, like mathematics. I'll go even further to say that language and rules are a tautology.
Leo White said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leo White said…
Let me revise what I wrote:

"There are already context free languages which consist entirely of mathematical rules."

Every mathematical language can be imagined to be context free and consisting entirely of mathematical rules. But the only reason why we turn to mathematics is because of desire. The only reason why we come up with new versions of mathematics is because of desire. Rules can very rightly be seen as directions for getting what you desire. Rules therefore presuppose desire. And desire always involves a practical context: the mathematician always does math because he or she desires something here and now. Desire is, if you will, a condition for the possibility of the intelligibility of math.

"The mere fact that all people understand language to begin with is a fact consistent with learning those rules."

Wittgenstein isn't denying the existence of rules within language, so pointing out the existence of rules is not contradicting him. Nor is it surprising to him: his point is that such rules involve something more that cannot be expressed in the form of rules.

"There's nothing mysterious about language apart from its obvious sloppiness and imprecision."

I think that we need to approach these topics with the sense that there is more to reality than we presently know. Reality is more interesting when we approach it that way. "There is nothing mysterious about...": excuse me, I would never say that about anything.

What I just wrote applies to pretty much the rest of what you said: "the whole of language lies in its reduction." At this point, I think your confidence shines through but not much that is illuminating for me.
Leo White said…
By the way, the comment windows really suck for this blog format: I'll try another one soon.
Eternitatis said…
I thought you were talking about language. Desire is a human emotion which I suppose can be expressed through language - perhaps not completely. Is that your point ala Wittgenstein; namely, that the use of language is incomplete? I'm not sure if I even understand the question you are asking. Language IS rule based. Human emotions are causative. Mix them up with language and you end up with that which can or cannot be expressed by a rule based system? I suppose so, but only because the "causative nature" of emotions is not completely elucidated, and that is the case because we haven't figured out the structure of consciousness/emotions in humans yet. It is not a shortcoming of language but rather of our lack of understanding of how our mind works. This is also a good place to throw in Goedels Incompleteness theorem; namely, any system (arithmetic, logic, language, etc.) robust enough to verify itself (by 2nd order logic) is inconsistent. So if it is complete, it is inconsistent, and if it is consistent then it is incomplete. (There are complete and consistent 1st order logical systems, however.) So language would also fail in some cases as well.
Leo White said…
I have waited months to reply to your comment--sorry!
"Language IS rule based": I think Wittgenstein's point is that it is not. To assert that it is so is not to give an argument.
"Human emotions are causative." Well, "causative" is an equivocal term from my perspective, but I'm sure you have something very precise in mind--namely the contrast between "causative" and "rule-based."
I propose that in this discussion we reserve "emotions" for a third person perspective and "desire" for a first person perspective. Wittgenstein is talking from a first person perspective (that is, first person plural, not from a private point of view/introspection). I suppose (correct me if I'm wrong) you are talking from the third person perspective (i.e., from the perspective of a scientist looking at someone else's report of having desires while measuring brain activity, etc.).
You may suppose that the third person perspective trumps the first person. But Wittgenstein offers insights, I believe, that prove otherwise.
Replying to W by pointing out the authority of science, with an act of FAITH ("the 'causative nature' of emotions is not completely elucidated..."), is circular.
As for Goedel's theorum: yes, that's relevant. And people who are smarter than me think it undermines materialism. And other people who are smarter than me think it doesn't. As soon as I understand it, I'll discuss it with you. Meanwhile, don't hold your breath.

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